Why You Have Brain Fog (and How to Clear It Fast) with Dr. Theoharis Theoharides
Brain fog is one of those terms that gets dismissed just as often as it gets diagnosed. But according to Dr. Theoharis Theoharides — Professor and Vice-Chair of Clinical Immunology at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine — it is far more real, and far more measurable, than most doctors acknowledge.
"It's a slang term, and some medical journals don't like to use it," Dr. Theoharides says, "but in a nutshell, it really captures what patients feel. All of a sudden, usually after some major event, although it can grow on you slowly, you start forgetting, especially shorter memory declines. You cannot find the right words. You can't quite grasp what is going on, so your cognition is down. You cannot multitask, and literally you feel you're in a fog."
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It's Not in Your Head — It's in Your Brain
One of the most validating moments of this episode comes early. Haylie Pomroy, Assistant Director of the Integrative Medicine Program at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine, pushes back on the all-too-common medical dismissal.
"It's an actual physiological manifestation of something being out of balance or wrong. It's not just in our minds, right?"
Dr. Theoharides is unequivocal: "No, no, no. Absolutely not."
He goes further, naming the exact structures in the brain involved — the thalamus, hypothalamus, amygdala, and hippocampus.
"They all talk to each other, and they're all found in the middle of our brain," he explains. "We know the hippocampus is mandatory for memory. We know the hypothalamus regulates what we call homeostasis — like all the functions of the body, whether we're going to sleep, we're going to be upset."
Haylie responds to this with something her community needed to hear: "By identifying the parts of the brain that are actually impacted, that anchors it in reality for us."
The Viral Connection: COVID, Spike Protein, and the Brain
Brain fog appears across many conditions — ME/CFS, traumatic brain injury, mononucleosis, mast cell activation syndrome — but in this episode, much of the conversation centers on long COVID.
"Some viruses can multiply in the brain. Some can hibernate in the brain, like the herpes virus. But then there are viruses that do not multiply, but get molecules that are shed from the virion into the brain," Dr. Theoharides explains. "And that's exactly what I think happens in long COVID."
Haylie puts it plainly: "There are certain viruses that grow or multiply, colonize the brain. There are ones that hibernate, stay dormant in the brain. And then there's ones that leave scrap — like shrapnel almost."
Dr. Theoharides confirms it. His team's research shows that spike proteins from the coronavirus are shed from the viral particle and can enter the brain — both through the blood-brain barrier and through the olfactory nerve via the nose. Once there, they can stay for up to two years.
"We just didn't think that that leftover piece would actually stay in the brain," he says.
Meet the Microglia: Your Brain's Immune Defense
Unlike the rest of the body, the brain has no white blood cells.
"The white blood cells should never get into the brain because if they get into the brain past the blood-brain barrier, they recognize the brain as foreign and they destroy it," Dr. Theoharides explains. "That's how we get multiple sclerosis."
Instead, the brain relies on its own specialized immune cells — microglia. Dr. Theoharides paints a vivid picture:
"Think of microglia as being like spiders that create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger. And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue."
His lab tested this directly. "We cultured human microglia in the laboratory, we stimulate them with synthetically made recombinant spike protein, and what do you know? They started putting out all kinds of destructive pro-inflammatory molecules. That's what we think is happening in those critical parts of the brain."
Reservoirs, the Gut, and the Vagus Nerve
Dr. Theoharides describes what colleagues are calling "reservoirs" of spike protein — not just in the brain, but in the gut as well.
"They think that from the gut it might be getting into the brain with a very long nerve we have, which is called the vagus nerve. It will go kind of up the vagus nerve and then inside the brain."
"It's kind of scary," he admits. "But at least we know that something is there that we can pay attention to and maybe undo."
For Haylie, this is personal. "I just get so frustrated when we have patients that come in that have seen several doctors, or they feel gaslit by the society in general — that COVID lasted 14 days, get over it."
Dr. Theoharides' response is simple: "It's so wrong."
What You Can Do: Protecting and Restoring Brain Cell Health
Folinic Acid (Calcium Folinate) "The best approach for someone out there, whether they see us or not, is we need to keep the brain cells in good health. A major component of that is folic acid, but folic acid is not sufficient. So we give high-octane folic acid, which is folinic acid or calcium folinate."
When Haylie asks about methylated folate, Dr. Theoharides explains the distinction: "Folinic acid gets into the cycle much faster, and it has the ability to go through different exits that are important in the brain before it gets to the final part. Some of those exits are required and not necessarily only the methylated folate."
His recommendation: "We should be using both calcium folinate and methyl folate at the same time."
Luteolin — A Flavonoid That Blocks Microglia "Some natural molecules that belong to the class of flavonoids, especially luteolin, can inhibit the microglia," Dr. Theoharides shares. He mentions two formulated products from his research: NeuroProtek, which focuses on blocking microglia, and Brain Gain, which adds calcium folinate and hydroxytyrosol from olive leaves. "Hydroxytyrosol increases short-term memory. So you get additional benefits from that."
A Word on Supplement Quality "The Food and Drug Administration, about two years ago, randomly examined a whole bunch of supplements. 65% of them had zero of what they claimed on the label," Dr. Theoharides warns.
Haylie adds: "I always say, you hope that what it says is in the bottle, because what's probably in the bottle is a whole lot of things that are going to cause problems — binding agents, the additives."
Testing: SPECT Scans and a New Biosignature Panel
Standard cytokine panels often miss what's happening in the brain. As Dr. Theoharides explains: "You almost have to feel that you have so much inflammation in the brain that it spills out into the blood. That's why I like the term localized or focal inflammation."
He points to SPECT (Single-Photon Emission Computed Tomography) scanning as a way to visualize activated microglia, and previews something his team is actively building — a biosignature panel.
"Molecules that either reflect breakdown of the blood-brain barrier, or disruption of the connectivity, or cleavage of those molecules that allow the neurons to communicate with each other — there are about five different categories. Those have been missed all along. We'll try to create a biosignature where a combination of those might be indicative of the problem, in which case we might have both a way to prognosticate how seriously the problem is, as well as to follow it after treatment to see that we're actually on the right track."
The Bottom Line
Haylie closes with the message her community needed most: "Brain fog is a symptom of something physiologically manifesting in the body. It's never just one thing. We're a biodynamic body having a biodiverse experience."
Dr. Theoharides closes with the message every patient deserves to hear: "Give credence to the patient. They know when something's going on. The worst part we can do is say, 'oh, it's all in your mind, it'll go away, or it's your fault.'"
Listen to Episode 146 of Fast Metabolism Matters wherever you get your podcasts.
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TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Think of microglia as being like spiders that create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger. And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue.
Haylie Pomroy: Today, we're going to tackle a pretty heavy subject, and it's going to be on brain fog.
I wanted to bring one of my esteemed colleagues, an individual that has won so many humanitarian awards, things like World Expert on Mass Cells. He is in the Rare Disease Hall of Fame. It is Dr. Theoharides, and Dr. Theoharides, thank you so much for coming back. Our viewers went crazy over your last podcast, so I feel so fortunate to have your time again today.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's my real pleasure, and I really thank you for doing this for ourselves and primarily for the patients out there.
Haylie Pomroy: It's been really great, and the questions that we're getting. Actually, this subject was voted on by our viewers, and so absolutely, yes. If you guys have questions for us, comments for us, suggestions of things that I get to ask Dr. Harris, please make sure that you comment below. But I want to tackle the concept of brain fog and what it is or what we think it could be, and I know it's not just one thing, and then I have a lot of questions around it.
Can you explain to me, I love the word because it is very descriptive of how we can feel, but what is defined in that when we say things like brain fog?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Obviously, it's a slang term, and some medical journals don't like to use it, but in a nutshell, it really captures what patients feel. All of a sudden, usually after some major event, although it can grow on you slowly, you start forgetting, especially shorter memory declines. You cannot find the right words. You can't quite grasp what is going on, so your cognition is down. You cannot multitask, and literally you feel you're in a fog.
Your head feels heavy. You can't really process information, and it happens to the best of us. It happens to people from all walks of life, all ethnic groups, and unfortunately, in many different conditions.
Haylie Pomroy: And all ages and all athletic abilities and all stages of health, that's what's so bizarre to me.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely. And unfortunately, many of our colleagues don't pay too much attention, if any at all, and with all due respect to our colleague psychiatrists, they might say, oh, it's all in your mind, go talk to a psychiatrist, which is not true at all. Of course, we need the psychiatrist, but not necessarily for this.
Haylie Pomroy: So it's an actual physiological manifestation of something being out of balance or wrong. It's not just in our minds, right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: No, no, no. Absolutely not. But before we get to that, we should probably mention that this happens in association with certain medical conditions, and those should be actually up there on the forefront.
For instance, obviously in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), we find it in traumatic brain injury. We find it in mononucleosis.
Haylie Pomroy: Which is cytomegalovirus, right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: No, no, that's actually—
Haylie Pomroy: Epstein-Barr virus. Sorry. Thank you.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: But I was just about to say, in many other post-viral illnesses, we find it in minimal cognitive problems such as pre-Alzheimer's, but we also find it in conditions like mast cell activation syndrome. And it invariably shows up, as I said, usually after some major event, and that is true absolutely in long COVID.
Haylie Pomroy: Okay. I'm going to stop you for a second. You just said a couple things that I just want to review. I understand in traumatic brain injury (TBI), there's maybe trauma to the tissue. There's residual inflammation. When we talk about chronic fatigue syndrome, is that an inflammatory response that's causing brain fog?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: I definitely believe that there is localized inflammation that might occur due to different reasons, and potentially affecting different parts of the brain. But at the end of the day, regardless of what part of the brain we're talking about, we have neuronal connectivity. The neurons, the nerve cells, have to connect with each other.
When we say inflammation, unfortunately, we use a very broad term, which doesn't necessarily apply to every condition. For instance, you can have inflammation in your lungs, you can get asthma, you've got inflammation on your skin, you've got psoriasis, you've got inflammation in your brain, you get multiple sclerosis. We're not talking about this kind of inflammation. So we have to be much more precise about what might be going on.
Haylie Pomroy: So is it a hormonal difference, or is it a physiological? Is there like swelling, or is there signaling differences?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: God, you're way ahead of me. I'm just
Haylie Pomroy: It's our community. They're asking these questions.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: We should think of those parts of the brain that would be intimately involved with the process we're talking about. That would be, for instance, and I know it's jargon, but it's thalamus, hypothalamus, amygdala, and hippocampus. And they all talk to each other, and they're all found in the middle of our brain, just about two inches behind, kind of, the beginning of our nose, if you kind of go straight down.
Haylie Pomroy: You know what's so important about what you just said, is those are actual things in our body that we can define. And I think that that anchors for the patient that it's real.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely.
Haylie Pomroy: It's not this thing floating around. And I know we use the term fog, and it is a slang word, but it is so descriptive to the wet blanket feeling that can happen. But by you identifying the parts of the brain that are actually impacted, that anchors it in reality for us.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely. We know the hippocampus is mandatory for memory. There's no question that would be involved. We know hypothalamus regulates what we call homeostasis, like all the functions of the body, whether we're going to sleep, we're going to be upset, etc. And stress, psychological and physiological stress, is a major factor. You can start with some mild symptoms, and then you get stress, like a car accident or, God forbid, death in the family, and all of a sudden, you crash. And from then on, it's just misery.
Haylie Pomroy: Your body's ability to adapt.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It just cannot anymore.
Haylie Pomroy: I'm going to ask the billion-dollar question. Last year, it would have been a million, or three years ago, it would have been a million-dollar question.
You mentioned individuals that get mononucleosis, that have residual Epstein-Barr virus. But we're seeing it so much now in people with COVID long haulers. What does having a viral infection have to do with the brain?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Some viruses can multiply in the brain. Some can hibernate in the brain, like the herpes virus, for instance. That's why we get cold sores when we get upset. That's herpes 1, which is similar to Epstein-Barr in the same kind of overall family. But then there are viruses that do not multiply, but get molecules that are shed from the virion into the brain. And that's exactly what I think happens in long COVID.
Haylie Pomroy: So it's almost like particles? I just have to think of it again in slang a little bit. There's certain viruses that grow or multiply, colonize the brain. There are ones that hibernate, so stay dormant in the brain. And then there's ones that leave scrap or like shrapnel almost.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: For instance, we've published this just over the last few months. The coronavirus, we all know, has the spike proteins all over. Spike proteins are shed from the particle. That means they can go to other places where the virus might not necessarily go.
Many colleagues have shown over the last year that the spike protein can enter the brain and can stay in the brain for up to two years.
Haylie Pomroy: So it crosses the blood-brain barrier?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: That, as well as it goes from the nose through the olfactory nerve that connects the brain directly into the brain. And it can stay there for a while.
Haylie Pomroy: Oh my gosh. And we know it's there because that's where we were swabbing our noses when we were going through the drive-thrus.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: That is correct. We just didn't think that that, as you call it, leftover piece would actually stay in the brain. What we did is, if the brain does not have white blood cells for defense. In fact, the white blood cells should never get into the brain because if they get into the brain past the blood-brain barrier, they recognize the brain as foreign and they destroy it. That's how we get multiple sclerosis.
Haylie Pomroy: Wow. The brain has no white blood cells.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely not.
Haylie Pomroy: So when we have infection, it doesn't have the capacity, that first line of defense.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It has, though, another set of cells that are called microglia. Think of microglia as being like spiders, and they create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger.
And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue. What we did is we cultured human microglia in the laboratory, we stimulate them with synthetically made recombinant spike protein, and what do you know? They started the microglia putting out all kinds of destructive pro-inflammatory molecules. That's what we think is happening in those critical parts of the brain.
Haylie Pomroy: Individuals maybe did clear, because I know some people think maybe we didn't clear, and maybe there's a combination. Maybe we didn't all clear the COVID virus, maybe we cleared parts of it, but maybe parts of it made it through the blood-brain barrier, and because we don't have white cells in the brain, this other component of our immune system in the brain is firing and has a signal that's attacking the own tissue.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Correct. Now, the colleagues call these reservoirs, spike protein.
Haylie Pomroy: Reservoirs of spike protein.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And they found such a reservoir in the brain, and they found one in the gut as well. And they think that from the gut it might be getting into the brain with a very long nerve we have, which is called the vagus nerve.
It will go kind of up the vagus nerve and then inside the brain. It's kind of scary. It's scary because at least we know that something is there that we can pay attention to and maybe undo.
Haylie Pomroy: I just get so frustrated when we have patients that come in that have seen several doctors, or they feel gaslit by the society in general, that COVID lasted 14 days, get over it. Right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's so wrong.
Haylie Pomroy: It is so wrong. And I love that this research is happening at our institute. I love it because I feel like we focus on translational research where we take these brilliant minds like yours and create these models and bring them in a research setting where it can go right to the patient. That's fascinating. But the other thing is all these people that are struggling, that they can have some hope.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Well, they should have hope because by using actually the cultured microglia and stimulating them, we have a way to pre-treat the microglia and find out what will actually block them.
Haylie Pomroy: So we can do it outside of the body.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: We can do it outside the body and then translate that into humans. The best approach for someone out there, whether they see us or not, is we need to keep the brain cells in good health because they're bombarded there. And a major component of that is folic acid, the vitamin, but folic acid is not sufficient to keep the cells going. So we give high-octane folic acid, which is folinic acid or calcium folinate. That's number one.
Haylie Pomroy: What about methylated folic acid?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Methylated folic acid is fine, except that if you imagine that we have a circle, the folic acid gets to the beginning of the circle, and they will cycle the circle, and then eventually the methylated comes out here. But in order to get to that stage, you've got to go inside the cycle. The folinic acid or calcium folinate gets into the cycle much faster, and it has the ability to go through different exits that are important in the brain before it gets to the final part.
Some of those exits are required and not necessarily only the methylated folate.
Haylie Pomroy: So sometimes, by bypassing that when we're working with the brain, we miss an opportunity. Got it.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: As far as I'm concerned, we should be using both calcium folinate and methyl folate at the same time. And then what do we do to block the microglia? Well, we already know that because we've published it, that some natural molecules that belong to the class of flavonoids, especially luteolin, can inhibit the microglia.
Haylie Pomroy: And so it can inhibit that inflammatory or degenerative response. And can you say that, so it's a flavonoid, so it's a plant, a natural plant derivative. And flavonoid, I always remember it's anti-inflammatory, flavid, I don't know. I love the term. But one specifically that you have done a lot of research in is called?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's called NeuroProtek. And another one's called Brain Gain. And the difference is the NeuroProtek, which is available on Amazon, etc., has only the ability to block the microglia, which is wonderful. The Brain Gain not only blocks the microglia, but it has in it formulated the calcium folinate, and it has also from olive leaves, hydroxytyrosyl, that increases short-term memory. So you get additional benefits from that.
Haylie Pomroy: And what's the flavonoid called?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: The flavonoid is luteolin. Yes, which is different from lutein. Lutein is in carrots. It's a carotenoid.
Haylie Pomroy: It's very different. And so, where does this flavonoid come from?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: In this particular case, it comes from grapefruit seeds, although it can come from elsewhere as well.
Haylie Pomroy: Many sources, yes.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Now, one important thing to remember, in general, not about flavonoids, is the Food and Drug Administration in the United States, about two years ago, randomly examined a whole bunch of supplements, not necessarily with flavonoids. 65% of them had zero of what they claimed on the label. So we've got to be very careful, number one, which are the companies that sell them, and what the source might be, and what the purity might be.
And number two, the additional ingredients that make up the bulk of what we're taking could be very problematic.
Haylie Pomroy: I always say, you hope that what it says is in the bottle, because what's probably in the bottle is a whole lot of things that are going to cause problems.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely.
Haylie Pomroy: Binding agents, the additives.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: One major problem is something that maybe we should have a whole separate session on. It's called alpha-gal. Alpha-gal, it's like a sugar-type molecule. It's found in mammals, but not in humans. And it's become a major problem; now it's called alpha-gal syndrome.
Number one, because you can become very allergic to it, and it has numerous symptoms that almost are a reminiscence of mast cell activation syndrome.
Haylie Pomroy: And where does alpha-gal come from? Where do you find it?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's primarily in bovine material, in pork, in deer.
Haylie Pomroy: In collagen products. In bone broth products.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: In gelatin.Yes. Chapstick, for instance.
I've had patients who would turn red.
Haylie Pomroy: Lipstick, Chapstick.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And what's become worse recently is that ticks can bite a deer, can then bite you, and you might not get Lyme disease, but it will carry basically the alpha-gal. Now, all of a sudden, you become allergic.
Haylie Pomroy: We call it meat syndrome. There's another lay term or another.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And Brain Gain could help with this, but brain fog is also a symptom of people that get alpha-gal syndrome. I didn't want to cover everything at the very beginning, but you see where I'm going. Someone can show up with very confusing symptoms like headaches, diarrhea, chest pain, brain fog, and some itching. And now what is it? Is it allergies? Is it mast cell activation? Is it a viral infection? Is it alpha-gal? That's where we come in, where we can actually prioritize, test for each one, come up to an answer, organize it, and then introduce some reasonable treatment rather than shooting who they hit.
Haylie Pomroy: And it's never just one thing. We're a biodynamic body having a biodiverse experience, and so it's never just one thing. Well, I think the most important thing for us is to understand that brain fog is a symptom of something physiologically manifesting in the body. And I think that's critical. Can I ask you, I know our time is limited, but I've got two quick questions. One, is there any kind of lab diagnostics that can be run to help maybe narrow down why a person is suffering with brain fog? Do you check cytokines? Give me just a couple things that maybe we could have.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: You're right on target. Cytokines have not actually proven helpful, even though they're part of the inflammatory cascade.
Haylie Pomroy: Is it because it's in the blood and not the brain?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: You almost have to feel that you have so much inflammation in the brain that it spills out of the blood. And that's why I like the term localized or focal inflammation, to indicate that we're not getting what otherwise would be called encephalitis, that affects the whole brain, or meningitis.
Haylie Pomroy: Yes, or vascular inflammation that they can see in an MRI.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Now, there are ways that we can pick it up.
Number one, there is a way to visualize the activated microglia, or what is called a SPECT (Single-Photon Emission Computed Tomography) scan.
Haylie Pomroy: SPECT scan. And there's some really advanced ones now.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Yes, there's a whole bunch of them. There's a company that has a series of them all over the States, etc. We are also now trying to create a panel, and that's where my meeting is in a few minutes.
Haylie Pomroy: I'm going to let you go, I promise. Our community wants to keep you forever.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Molecules that either reflect breakdown of the blood-brain barrier, number one, or disruption of the connectivity, number two, or cleavage of those molecules that allow the neurons to communicate with each other. There are about five different categories. Those have been missed all along. Typically, they're not measured. And I don't believe that one of them will be significant, because in various conditions, various things might be up and down.
Haylie Pomroy: And they're transient, yes.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And transient. So we'll try to create a biosignature where a combination of those might be indicative of the problem, in which case we might have both a way to prognosticate how seriously the problem is, as well as to follow it after treatment to see that we're actually on the right track. But I have to tell you, we've had numerous patients that do extremely well just by focusing on what might be the worst trigger for those, and then go on.
Haylie Pomroy: Hey, this is Haley Pomeroy. And right now we're going to transition into our Q&A portion of the podcast. And you'll notice that we have live viewers asking us questions. They're my Fast Metabolism members, and they get all kinds of amazing benefits, like member discounts on my world-class supplements and shakes, every product, every day, personalized guidance and support from myself and my team, and even the ability to ask questions of our podcast guests. If you have questions and want to get them answered, you should absolutely join my membership. And if you go to hayliepomroy.com/member, you can join for free for 30 days. Again, that's hayliepomroy.com/member, and join for free for 30 days. I can't wait to see you there.
Dr. Harris, I cannot thank you enough for talking to us about this. The most important thing I think for our community to understand is that we're here for you. We want to talk about these difficult subjects. We are tirelessly, I can hardly say that word, but I can't think of a better one to express what I get to witness at the Institute through research, through incredible donors. We are working every day to try to find biosignatures, the how, the why, and get patients treatment for things like this. Thank you for allowing us to understand the physiological aspect of brain fog, to understand that it really has a place to anchor in our body, that there's something going on in the immune system, in the brain. And every time we learn more about our body, anytime we get to spend time with you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And please promise you'll come back.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: I will come back, and we should definitely cover mold and mycotoxins next time. I gave a two-hour seminar the other day for an international group out of the UK, and they could not stop asking questions because this is so serious. Pretty much everybody was exposed to mold, and the volatile mycotoxins get brain fog.
Haylie Pomroy: Absolutely. And the immune system, and then what happens in the body, and so many people get discounted when they want to have environmental testing done.
Give credence to the patient. They know when something’s going on. The worst part we can do is say, oh it's all in your mind, it'll go away, or it's your fault. That's the worst of all.
Haylie Pomroy: Yes, eat more lettuce. That's my favorite one.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Well, thank you very, very much. And thank you for all your wonderful questions.
Haylie Pomroy: Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure. You guys, leave comments, leave questions. We're so privileged to have Dr. Harris here as a resource to us, and as always, I cannot thank you. On behalf of myself and the thousands and thousands of people internationally that are watching our podcast now, you mean the world to us, and thank you for coming back. We'll see you soon.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Thank you very much, myself. Keep the good work.
Brain fog is one of those terms that gets dismissed just as often as it gets diagnosed. But according to Dr. Theoharis Theoharides — Professor and Vice-Chair of Clinical Immunology at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine — it is far more real, and far more measurable, than most doctors acknowledge.
"It's a slang term, and some medical journals don't like to use it," Dr. Theoharides says, "but in a nutshell, it really captures what patients feel. All of a sudden, usually after some major event, although it can grow on you slowly, you start forgetting, especially shorter memory declines. You cannot find the right words. You can't quite grasp what is going on, so your cognition is down. You cannot multitask, and literally you feel you're in a fog."
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It's Not in Your Head — It's in Your Brain
One of the most validating moments of this episode comes early. Haylie Pomroy, Assistant Director of the Integrative Medicine Program at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine, pushes back on the all-too-common medical dismissal.
"It's an actual physiological manifestation of something being out of balance or wrong. It's not just in our minds, right?"
Dr. Theoharides is unequivocal: "No, no, no. Absolutely not."
He goes further, naming the exact structures in the brain involved — the thalamus, hypothalamus, amygdala, and hippocampus.
"They all talk to each other, and they're all found in the middle of our brain," he explains. "We know the hippocampus is mandatory for memory. We know the hypothalamus regulates what we call homeostasis — like all the functions of the body, whether we're going to sleep, we're going to be upset."
Haylie responds to this with something her community needed to hear: "By identifying the parts of the brain that are actually impacted, that anchors it in reality for us."
The Viral Connection: COVID, Spike Protein, and the Brain
Brain fog appears across many conditions — ME/CFS, traumatic brain injury, mononucleosis, mast cell activation syndrome — but in this episode, much of the conversation centers on long COVID.
"Some viruses can multiply in the brain. Some can hibernate in the brain, like the herpes virus. But then there are viruses that do not multiply, but get molecules that are shed from the virion into the brain," Dr. Theoharides explains. "And that's exactly what I think happens in long COVID."
Haylie puts it plainly: "There are certain viruses that grow or multiply, colonize the brain. There are ones that hibernate, stay dormant in the brain. And then there's ones that leave scrap — like shrapnel almost."
Dr. Theoharides confirms it. His team's research shows that spike proteins from the coronavirus are shed from the viral particle and can enter the brain — both through the blood-brain barrier and through the olfactory nerve via the nose. Once there, they can stay for up to two years.
"We just didn't think that that leftover piece would actually stay in the brain," he says.
Meet the Microglia: Your Brain's Immune Defense
Unlike the rest of the body, the brain has no white blood cells.
"The white blood cells should never get into the brain because if they get into the brain past the blood-brain barrier, they recognize the brain as foreign and they destroy it," Dr. Theoharides explains. "That's how we get multiple sclerosis."
Instead, the brain relies on its own specialized immune cells — microglia. Dr. Theoharides paints a vivid picture:
"Think of microglia as being like spiders that create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger. And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue."
His lab tested this directly. "We cultured human microglia in the laboratory, we stimulate them with synthetically made recombinant spike protein, and what do you know? They started putting out all kinds of destructive pro-inflammatory molecules. That's what we think is happening in those critical parts of the brain."
Reservoirs, the Gut, and the Vagus Nerve
Dr. Theoharides describes what colleagues are calling "reservoirs" of spike protein — not just in the brain, but in the gut as well.
"They think that from the gut it might be getting into the brain with a very long nerve we have, which is called the vagus nerve. It will go kind of up the vagus nerve and then inside the brain."
"It's kind of scary," he admits. "But at least we know that something is there that we can pay attention to and maybe undo."
For Haylie, this is personal. "I just get so frustrated when we have patients that come in that have seen several doctors, or they feel gaslit by the society in general — that COVID lasted 14 days, get over it."
Dr. Theoharides' response is simple: "It's so wrong."
What You Can Do: Protecting and Restoring Brain Cell Health
Folinic Acid (Calcium Folinate) "The best approach for someone out there, whether they see us or not, is we need to keep the brain cells in good health. A major component of that is folic acid, but folic acid is not sufficient. So we give high-octane folic acid, which is folinic acid or calcium folinate."
When Haylie asks about methylated folate, Dr. Theoharides explains the distinction: "Folinic acid gets into the cycle much faster, and it has the ability to go through different exits that are important in the brain before it gets to the final part. Some of those exits are required and not necessarily only the methylated folate."
His recommendation: "We should be using both calcium folinate and methyl folate at the same time."
Luteolin — A Flavonoid That Blocks Microglia "Some natural molecules that belong to the class of flavonoids, especially luteolin, can inhibit the microglia," Dr. Theoharides shares. He mentions two formulated products from his research: NeuroProtek, which focuses on blocking microglia, and Brain Gain, which adds calcium folinate and hydroxytyrosol from olive leaves. "Hydroxytyrosol increases short-term memory. So you get additional benefits from that."
A Word on Supplement Quality "The Food and Drug Administration, about two years ago, randomly examined a whole bunch of supplements. 65% of them had zero of what they claimed on the label," Dr. Theoharides warns.
Haylie adds: "I always say, you hope that what it says is in the bottle, because what's probably in the bottle is a whole lot of things that are going to cause problems — binding agents, the additives."
Testing: SPECT Scans and a New Biosignature Panel
Standard cytokine panels often miss what's happening in the brain. As Dr. Theoharides explains: "You almost have to feel that you have so much inflammation in the brain that it spills out into the blood. That's why I like the term localized or focal inflammation."
He points to SPECT (Single-Photon Emission Computed Tomography) scanning as a way to visualize activated microglia, and previews something his team is actively building — a biosignature panel.
"Molecules that either reflect breakdown of the blood-brain barrier, or disruption of the connectivity, or cleavage of those molecules that allow the neurons to communicate with each other — there are about five different categories. Those have been missed all along. We'll try to create a biosignature where a combination of those might be indicative of the problem, in which case we might have both a way to prognosticate how seriously the problem is, as well as to follow it after treatment to see that we're actually on the right track."
The Bottom Line
Haylie closes with the message her community needed most: "Brain fog is a symptom of something physiologically manifesting in the body. It's never just one thing. We're a biodynamic body having a biodiverse experience."
Dr. Theoharides closes with the message every patient deserves to hear: "Give credence to the patient. They know when something's going on. The worst part we can do is say, 'oh, it's all in your mind, it'll go away, or it's your fault.'"
Listen to Episode 146 of Fast Metabolism Matters wherever you get your podcasts.
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TRANSCRIPT
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Think of microglia as being like spiders that create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger. And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue.
Haylie Pomroy: Today, we're going to tackle a pretty heavy subject, and it's going to be on brain fog.
I wanted to bring one of my esteemed colleagues, an individual that has won so many humanitarian awards, things like World Expert on Mass Cells. He is in the Rare Disease Hall of Fame. It is Dr. Theoharides, and Dr. Theoharides, thank you so much for coming back. Our viewers went crazy over your last podcast, so I feel so fortunate to have your time again today.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's my real pleasure, and I really thank you for doing this for ourselves and primarily for the patients out there.
Haylie Pomroy: It's been really great, and the questions that we're getting. Actually, this subject was voted on by our viewers, and so absolutely, yes. If you guys have questions for us, comments for us, suggestions of things that I get to ask Dr. Harris, please make sure that you comment below. But I want to tackle the concept of brain fog and what it is or what we think it could be, and I know it's not just one thing, and then I have a lot of questions around it.
Can you explain to me, I love the word because it is very descriptive of how we can feel, but what is defined in that when we say things like brain fog?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Obviously, it's a slang term, and some medical journals don't like to use it, but in a nutshell, it really captures what patients feel. All of a sudden, usually after some major event, although it can grow on you slowly, you start forgetting, especially shorter memory declines. You cannot find the right words. You can't quite grasp what is going on, so your cognition is down. You cannot multitask, and literally you feel you're in a fog.
Your head feels heavy. You can't really process information, and it happens to the best of us. It happens to people from all walks of life, all ethnic groups, and unfortunately, in many different conditions.
Haylie Pomroy: And all ages and all athletic abilities and all stages of health, that's what's so bizarre to me.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely. And unfortunately, many of our colleagues don't pay too much attention, if any at all, and with all due respect to our colleague psychiatrists, they might say, oh, it's all in your mind, go talk to a psychiatrist, which is not true at all. Of course, we need the psychiatrist, but not necessarily for this.
Haylie Pomroy: So it's an actual physiological manifestation of something being out of balance or wrong. It's not just in our minds, right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: No, no, no. Absolutely not. But before we get to that, we should probably mention that this happens in association with certain medical conditions, and those should be actually up there on the forefront.
For instance, obviously in myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), we find it in traumatic brain injury. We find it in mononucleosis.
Haylie Pomroy: Which is cytomegalovirus, right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: No, no, that's actually—
Haylie Pomroy: Epstein-Barr virus. Sorry. Thank you.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: But I was just about to say, in many other post-viral illnesses, we find it in minimal cognitive problems such as pre-Alzheimer's, but we also find it in conditions like mast cell activation syndrome. And it invariably shows up, as I said, usually after some major event, and that is true absolutely in long COVID.
Haylie Pomroy: Okay. I'm going to stop you for a second. You just said a couple things that I just want to review. I understand in traumatic brain injury (TBI), there's maybe trauma to the tissue. There's residual inflammation. When we talk about chronic fatigue syndrome, is that an inflammatory response that's causing brain fog?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: I definitely believe that there is localized inflammation that might occur due to different reasons, and potentially affecting different parts of the brain. But at the end of the day, regardless of what part of the brain we're talking about, we have neuronal connectivity. The neurons, the nerve cells, have to connect with each other.
When we say inflammation, unfortunately, we use a very broad term, which doesn't necessarily apply to every condition. For instance, you can have inflammation in your lungs, you can get asthma, you've got inflammation on your skin, you've got psoriasis, you've got inflammation in your brain, you get multiple sclerosis. We're not talking about this kind of inflammation. So we have to be much more precise about what might be going on.
Haylie Pomroy: So is it a hormonal difference, or is it a physiological? Is there like swelling, or is there signaling differences?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: God, you're way ahead of me. I'm just
Haylie Pomroy: It's our community. They're asking these questions.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: We should think of those parts of the brain that would be intimately involved with the process we're talking about. That would be, for instance, and I know it's jargon, but it's thalamus, hypothalamus, amygdala, and hippocampus. And they all talk to each other, and they're all found in the middle of our brain, just about two inches behind, kind of, the beginning of our nose, if you kind of go straight down.
Haylie Pomroy: You know what's so important about what you just said, is those are actual things in our body that we can define. And I think that that anchors for the patient that it's real.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely.
Haylie Pomroy: It's not this thing floating around. And I know we use the term fog, and it is a slang word, but it is so descriptive to the wet blanket feeling that can happen. But by you identifying the parts of the brain that are actually impacted, that anchors it in reality for us.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely. We know the hippocampus is mandatory for memory. There's no question that would be involved. We know hypothalamus regulates what we call homeostasis, like all the functions of the body, whether we're going to sleep, we're going to be upset, etc. And stress, psychological and physiological stress, is a major factor. You can start with some mild symptoms, and then you get stress, like a car accident or, God forbid, death in the family, and all of a sudden, you crash. And from then on, it's just misery.
Haylie Pomroy: Your body's ability to adapt.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It just cannot anymore.
Haylie Pomroy: I'm going to ask the billion-dollar question. Last year, it would have been a million, or three years ago, it would have been a million-dollar question.
You mentioned individuals that get mononucleosis, that have residual Epstein-Barr virus. But we're seeing it so much now in people with COVID long haulers. What does having a viral infection have to do with the brain?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Some viruses can multiply in the brain. Some can hibernate in the brain, like the herpes virus, for instance. That's why we get cold sores when we get upset. That's herpes 1, which is similar to Epstein-Barr in the same kind of overall family. But then there are viruses that do not multiply, but get molecules that are shed from the virion into the brain. And that's exactly what I think happens in long COVID.
Haylie Pomroy: So it's almost like particles? I just have to think of it again in slang a little bit. There's certain viruses that grow or multiply, colonize the brain. There are ones that hibernate, so stay dormant in the brain. And then there's ones that leave scrap or like shrapnel almost.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: For instance, we've published this just over the last few months. The coronavirus, we all know, has the spike proteins all over. Spike proteins are shed from the particle. That means they can go to other places where the virus might not necessarily go.
Many colleagues have shown over the last year that the spike protein can enter the brain and can stay in the brain for up to two years.
Haylie Pomroy: So it crosses the blood-brain barrier?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: That, as well as it goes from the nose through the olfactory nerve that connects the brain directly into the brain. And it can stay there for a while.
Haylie Pomroy: Oh my gosh. And we know it's there because that's where we were swabbing our noses when we were going through the drive-thrus.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: That is correct. We just didn't think that that, as you call it, leftover piece would actually stay in the brain. What we did is, if the brain does not have white blood cells for defense. In fact, the white blood cells should never get into the brain because if they get into the brain past the blood-brain barrier, they recognize the brain as foreign and they destroy it. That's how we get multiple sclerosis.
Haylie Pomroy: Wow. The brain has no white blood cells.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely not.
Haylie Pomroy: So when we have infection, it doesn't have the capacity, that first line of defense.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It has, though, another set of cells that are called microglia. Think of microglia as being like spiders, and they create a spider web, and the neurons crawl on the scaffolding of the spider web, and they make their connections. If, however, the microglia see danger, they stop making the web, they multiply, and they try to attack the danger.
And in the process of attacking, early on, they might be doing something useful, then it starts becoming autoinflammatory, starts destroying its own tissue. What we did is we cultured human microglia in the laboratory, we stimulate them with synthetically made recombinant spike protein, and what do you know? They started the microglia putting out all kinds of destructive pro-inflammatory molecules. That's what we think is happening in those critical parts of the brain.
Haylie Pomroy: Individuals maybe did clear, because I know some people think maybe we didn't clear, and maybe there's a combination. Maybe we didn't all clear the COVID virus, maybe we cleared parts of it, but maybe parts of it made it through the blood-brain barrier, and because we don't have white cells in the brain, this other component of our immune system in the brain is firing and has a signal that's attacking the own tissue.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Correct. Now, the colleagues call these reservoirs, spike protein.
Haylie Pomroy: Reservoirs of spike protein.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And they found such a reservoir in the brain, and they found one in the gut as well. And they think that from the gut it might be getting into the brain with a very long nerve we have, which is called the vagus nerve.
It will go kind of up the vagus nerve and then inside the brain. It's kind of scary. It's scary because at least we know that something is there that we can pay attention to and maybe undo.
Haylie Pomroy: I just get so frustrated when we have patients that come in that have seen several doctors, or they feel gaslit by the society in general, that COVID lasted 14 days, get over it. Right?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's so wrong.
Haylie Pomroy: It is so wrong. And I love that this research is happening at our institute. I love it because I feel like we focus on translational research where we take these brilliant minds like yours and create these models and bring them in a research setting where it can go right to the patient. That's fascinating. But the other thing is all these people that are struggling, that they can have some hope.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Well, they should have hope because by using actually the cultured microglia and stimulating them, we have a way to pre-treat the microglia and find out what will actually block them.
Haylie Pomroy: So we can do it outside of the body.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: We can do it outside the body and then translate that into humans. The best approach for someone out there, whether they see us or not, is we need to keep the brain cells in good health because they're bombarded there. And a major component of that is folic acid, the vitamin, but folic acid is not sufficient to keep the cells going. So we give high-octane folic acid, which is folinic acid or calcium folinate. That's number one.
Haylie Pomroy: What about methylated folic acid?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Methylated folic acid is fine, except that if you imagine that we have a circle, the folic acid gets to the beginning of the circle, and they will cycle the circle, and then eventually the methylated comes out here. But in order to get to that stage, you've got to go inside the cycle. The folinic acid or calcium folinate gets into the cycle much faster, and it has the ability to go through different exits that are important in the brain before it gets to the final part.
Some of those exits are required and not necessarily only the methylated folate.
Haylie Pomroy: So sometimes, by bypassing that when we're working with the brain, we miss an opportunity. Got it.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: As far as I'm concerned, we should be using both calcium folinate and methyl folate at the same time. And then what do we do to block the microglia? Well, we already know that because we've published it, that some natural molecules that belong to the class of flavonoids, especially luteolin, can inhibit the microglia.
Haylie Pomroy: And so it can inhibit that inflammatory or degenerative response. And can you say that, so it's a flavonoid, so it's a plant, a natural plant derivative. And flavonoid, I always remember it's anti-inflammatory, flavid, I don't know. I love the term. But one specifically that you have done a lot of research in is called?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's called NeuroProtek. And another one's called Brain Gain. And the difference is the NeuroProtek, which is available on Amazon, etc., has only the ability to block the microglia, which is wonderful. The Brain Gain not only blocks the microglia, but it has in it formulated the calcium folinate, and it has also from olive leaves, hydroxytyrosyl, that increases short-term memory. So you get additional benefits from that.
Haylie Pomroy: And what's the flavonoid called?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: The flavonoid is luteolin. Yes, which is different from lutein. Lutein is in carrots. It's a carotenoid.
Haylie Pomroy: It's very different. And so, where does this flavonoid come from?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: In this particular case, it comes from grapefruit seeds, although it can come from elsewhere as well.
Haylie Pomroy: Many sources, yes.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Now, one important thing to remember, in general, not about flavonoids, is the Food and Drug Administration in the United States, about two years ago, randomly examined a whole bunch of supplements, not necessarily with flavonoids. 65% of them had zero of what they claimed on the label. So we've got to be very careful, number one, which are the companies that sell them, and what the source might be, and what the purity might be.
And number two, the additional ingredients that make up the bulk of what we're taking could be very problematic.
Haylie Pomroy: I always say, you hope that what it says is in the bottle, because what's probably in the bottle is a whole lot of things that are going to cause problems.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Absolutely.
Haylie Pomroy: Binding agents, the additives.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: One major problem is something that maybe we should have a whole separate session on. It's called alpha-gal. Alpha-gal, it's like a sugar-type molecule. It's found in mammals, but not in humans. And it's become a major problem; now it's called alpha-gal syndrome.
Number one, because you can become very allergic to it, and it has numerous symptoms that almost are a reminiscence of mast cell activation syndrome.
Haylie Pomroy: And where does alpha-gal come from? Where do you find it?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: It's primarily in bovine material, in pork, in deer.
Haylie Pomroy: In collagen products. In bone broth products.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: In gelatin.Yes. Chapstick, for instance.
I've had patients who would turn red.
Haylie Pomroy: Lipstick, Chapstick.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And what's become worse recently is that ticks can bite a deer, can then bite you, and you might not get Lyme disease, but it will carry basically the alpha-gal. Now, all of a sudden, you become allergic.
Haylie Pomroy: We call it meat syndrome. There's another lay term or another.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And Brain Gain could help with this, but brain fog is also a symptom of people that get alpha-gal syndrome. I didn't want to cover everything at the very beginning, but you see where I'm going. Someone can show up with very confusing symptoms like headaches, diarrhea, chest pain, brain fog, and some itching. And now what is it? Is it allergies? Is it mast cell activation? Is it a viral infection? Is it alpha-gal? That's where we come in, where we can actually prioritize, test for each one, come up to an answer, organize it, and then introduce some reasonable treatment rather than shooting who they hit.
Haylie Pomroy: And it's never just one thing. We're a biodynamic body having a biodiverse experience, and so it's never just one thing. Well, I think the most important thing for us is to understand that brain fog is a symptom of something physiologically manifesting in the body. And I think that's critical. Can I ask you, I know our time is limited, but I've got two quick questions. One, is there any kind of lab diagnostics that can be run to help maybe narrow down why a person is suffering with brain fog? Do you check cytokines? Give me just a couple things that maybe we could have.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: You're right on target. Cytokines have not actually proven helpful, even though they're part of the inflammatory cascade.
Haylie Pomroy: Is it because it's in the blood and not the brain?
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: You almost have to feel that you have so much inflammation in the brain that it spills out of the blood. And that's why I like the term localized or focal inflammation, to indicate that we're not getting what otherwise would be called encephalitis, that affects the whole brain, or meningitis.
Haylie Pomroy: Yes, or vascular inflammation that they can see in an MRI.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Now, there are ways that we can pick it up.
Number one, there is a way to visualize the activated microglia, or what is called a SPECT (Single-Photon Emission Computed Tomography) scan.
Haylie Pomroy: SPECT scan. And there's some really advanced ones now.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Yes, there's a whole bunch of them. There's a company that has a series of them all over the States, etc. We are also now trying to create a panel, and that's where my meeting is in a few minutes.
Haylie Pomroy: I'm going to let you go, I promise. Our community wants to keep you forever.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Molecules that either reflect breakdown of the blood-brain barrier, number one, or disruption of the connectivity, number two, or cleavage of those molecules that allow the neurons to communicate with each other. There are about five different categories. Those have been missed all along. Typically, they're not measured. And I don't believe that one of them will be significant, because in various conditions, various things might be up and down.
Haylie Pomroy: And they're transient, yes.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: And transient. So we'll try to create a biosignature where a combination of those might be indicative of the problem, in which case we might have both a way to prognosticate how seriously the problem is, as well as to follow it after treatment to see that we're actually on the right track. But I have to tell you, we've had numerous patients that do extremely well just by focusing on what might be the worst trigger for those, and then go on.
Haylie Pomroy: Hey, this is Haley Pomeroy. And right now we're going to transition into our Q&A portion of the podcast. And you'll notice that we have live viewers asking us questions. They're my Fast Metabolism members, and they get all kinds of amazing benefits, like member discounts on my world-class supplements and shakes, every product, every day, personalized guidance and support from myself and my team, and even the ability to ask questions of our podcast guests. If you have questions and want to get them answered, you should absolutely join my membership. And if you go to hayliepomroy.com/member, you can join for free for 30 days. Again, that's hayliepomroy.com/member, and join for free for 30 days. I can't wait to see you there.
Dr. Harris, I cannot thank you enough for talking to us about this. The most important thing I think for our community to understand is that we're here for you. We want to talk about these difficult subjects. We are tirelessly, I can hardly say that word, but I can't think of a better one to express what I get to witness at the Institute through research, through incredible donors. We are working every day to try to find biosignatures, the how, the why, and get patients treatment for things like this. Thank you for allowing us to understand the physiological aspect of brain fog, to understand that it really has a place to anchor in our body, that there's something going on in the immune system, in the brain. And every time we learn more about our body, anytime we get to spend time with you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And please promise you'll come back.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: I will come back, and we should definitely cover mold and mycotoxins next time. I gave a two-hour seminar the other day for an international group out of the UK, and they could not stop asking questions because this is so serious. Pretty much everybody was exposed to mold, and the volatile mycotoxins get brain fog.
Haylie Pomroy: Absolutely. And the immune system, and then what happens in the body, and so many people get discounted when they want to have environmental testing done.
Give credence to the patient. They know when something’s going on. The worst part we can do is say, oh it's all in your mind, it'll go away, or it's your fault. That's the worst of all.
Haylie Pomroy: Yes, eat more lettuce. That's my favorite one.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Well, thank you very, very much. And thank you for all your wonderful questions.
Haylie Pomroy: Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure. You guys, leave comments, leave questions. We're so privileged to have Dr. Harris here as a resource to us, and as always, I cannot thank you. On behalf of myself and the thousands and thousands of people internationally that are watching our podcast now, you mean the world to us, and thank you for coming back. We'll see you soon.
Dr. Theoharis Theoharides: Thank you very much, myself. Keep the good work.
